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[42]

Thank you, Tatyana.

[Tatyana]

You´re very welcome.

[GG001]

On a more serious note again:

What's really terrible is the "status" that a ministry afforded the wife of the minister. The wife of a rector of a higher ranking BoB was treated differently, even by other women. A woman who's husband was not a minister was right down there with the poor unfortunates who had "married outside of the faith". You weren't ever asked to do or be in charge of anything. You simply didn't have a voice or role.

I have to admit, quite to my shame, that I struggled a lot with my own feelings when my husband decided he didn't want to hold an office. I believe that he originally said yes out of guilt and pressure, and was able to "exit gracefully" when we moved. He was asked in our new congregation, but by then had the personal strength to say 'no' and know it was not for him. It took me quite a lot longer to be ok with it. I had grown up the daughter of a Priest, and been thoroughly indoctrinated that I would marry a servant. (http://nacboard.yuku.com/topic/715)

The outlook was that any healthy, of-age male who didn't have an office was "unfaithful" in some way. It was shocking to my self-perceptions of my own feminism to realize how deeply these ideas had been embedded, and it was a very hard mindset to get out of. On one hand I felt embarrassed that he didn't fit in with these expectations I had growing up. On the other hand, I had come to the point where I KNEW those feelings weren't right. I knew that being a minister was not for everyone, and that serving encompassed SO much more in out lives, and I was embarrassed by my baggage and judgement.

How terrible and limiting that all of my self-worth should be tied up in someone else. The hardest part was there I didn't feel that there was anyone I could talk to about it.

I, thankfully, feel very differently now. I know my relationship with God and Christ is mine alone, and it is very liberating (no pun intended).

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Curious.

...and the mirror image to what you speak of was "become a servant of God, my boy". Anything less was failure to meet the high standard of faith and understanding required of "a servant". Find you wife at the Lord's feet. If you can't see her, ask God to show her to you. Ensure she comes from a strong lineage of "faith". Then to hear "No, perhaps not her. She looks too much like Dusty Springfield". Maybe if you can get her to tidy herself up more, she may still be the one". Needless to say she ran in the other direction when I spoke to her about it. Me? I was just being obedient and the fact that she did not want to cut down on the mascara was an obvious sign from God that I had to continue looking elsewhere. How screwed up was that?! "My boy, as a future servant of God, you need to stay away from loose women". By that was meant anyone in a mini who went to the movies and smoked. I am not making this up. So when the apostle's son and I both started making eyes at the same girl, I just knew I was on the right track. I won. She later had an affair which ended the marriage. Geeesshh whatever happened to that sweet kid who looked like Dusty?? Anyone who says that stuff never happened must have belonged to a different church than the NAC. There were tons of this stuff going on across various areas of life. The question that's got me beat is; Why does the NAC think a change in attitude can erase the past?

Beide Beitraege stammen aus dem NACboard Thema Different environment

[GG001]

Aus Suedafrika:

You certainly paint a positive picture of growth and strength in the Cape District. Unfortunately that can not be said about the South-East Africa district which is part of this great picture you are painting. To come to the point I want to raise is the fact that congregations that don't have church buildings face being closed down or the correct term used amalgamated if their rent is more than sixteen percent of their offering. The fact that there are poor communities and churches out there is a reality and the NAC just want to rake in the offering. No wonder there is this big contrast between the two districts at the bottom of Africa.
http://nacboard.yuku.com/sreply/66809/t ... mbers.html

Shall we call it "prophet and loss statements"?

[GG001]

How many churches would be willing to say that their doctrine regarding forgiveness was not cast in concrete?
"Knot Lost" im Nacboard

Ganz wenige?

[GG001]

The NAC could be considered a "sect" insofar as it was a break-away from other mainstream Christian denominations. The eclectic sources for the beginings of the church make it hard to define it clearly, partly because in the eighteen hundreds there were numerous extreme breakaway Christian movements, one of which was the Salvation Army. It is obvious that the larger communities saw the Catholic Apostolic Church as more "cult"-like however, and attached its identity to Irving (ie. "Irvingites").

The insular or "cloistered" nature of the NAC, made it unlikely that it would be obvious in larger communities. It has not historically, practically seen itself as a simple "denomination" within an ecumenical Christian field of denominations... it has rather, held to a more "exclusive" view of itself. The risks of that belief in exclusivity, are shown in the exteme contortions of the Botschaft. At the more mundane level however, it has also led individuals to a sense of uniqueness and superiority that is quite divorced from the concensus reality of the larger Christian community, or the broader societies in which we all live.

In my involvement with the NAC, I have found both extremes: "separation from the world" in a cult-like veneration of the apostles, based on paranoia about the dangers of the sinful world outside; versus serious, honest humility and a community of ministries and members that promotes sensitivity to and involvement in the world around us.
The balance from my experience has been towards the former, the closer I moved into the inner realms of Kitchener central. Fortunately for me however the situation in the smaller circle involving my present congregation, has been more like the latter. The pressures against the fostering and nurturing of an open, questioning, growing Christian environment, interestingly does not come from outside of the NAC. And I wonder to what degree future growth of this denomination, might depend on the degree to which individual members collectively begin to embrace the larger Christian community - both by reaching out and involving themselves in dialogue with that community, and by allowing that involvement to challenge and refine their own beliefs. From within the NAC, one might see such a suggestion as undermining the integrity of the apostles' ministry; but I believe the apostles, as ambassadors for Christ aye, should be able to engage the larger community with coherence and power, if they have the identity to stand on their faith, and have the knowledge needed to articulate that faith within a broader context.

Developmentally, the NAC appears to me to be at a cross-roads. Attracting in to a cult-like dogma has reached its peak (noting declining membership) and its continued growth or existence will perhaps hinge on its ability to develop "relevance" to the world around it.
"refrakted" im NACboard

Glossar: Kitchener Central: die Hauptkirche in Kitchener, Ontario. Kitchener Central war auch die Hauptkirche von BezAp Kraus, denn die Firma "Kraus Carpet Mills" ist in dieser Gegend beheimatet.

[GG001]

Etwas fuer Anglisten:

Yes, its true, in the *English speaking world, only the NAC has apostels.
The is no need for debate, discussion or analysis.

How could I realize this?
Well, after forty years of MISPRONOUNCING the word apostle, maybe its deliberate to show that its not really the same as the Twelve

Seriously, think about these words
Apostle
Hustle
Thistle
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apostle

M-W online shows the history, that of course the Late Latin, Old English and Middle English probably pronounced the "T", but modern English does not, and thats what we speak.
And just a little background on apostle (though the source is biased) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01626c.htm

The English speaking word does not pronounce the "T", unlike the German which spells it "apostel" and is therefore logical
This Germlish corruption is completely embedded in the English-speaking NAC and I never heard otherwise

Here's a suggested New Year's resolution for all English-speaking current (and former) NACs-
Pronounce the word apostle correctly in English, no "T" i.e. aposul
This will be a tiny step closer to mainstream Christianity.

regards

kbb

PS Yes thats how far removed from reality it is, tens of thousands of people taught to mis-pronounce the word in blind obedience of faith.

Aus dem NACboard

[GG001]

Die Gemeinsamkeiten zwischen Nordamerika und Deutschland gehen tiefer als manche denken Und dann doch wieder nicht wirklich ...

You are so correct KBB!

Since our departure we have started attending another (Christ-centered) church. At the church we also attend an adult Bible study. We often share in the reading and in the discussions. Several people have brought my pronuciation of the word apostle to my attention. At first, I figured it was just a different way of pronouncing it but later discovered that everyone else pronounces it as you have stated. Not only did we follow without confirming what was being taught, we also learned our own "language". It speaks volumes for the depth of the indoctrination.

Well, I don't know if it speaks of "indocrination", as much as it speaks of the German North American roots within the NAC. I never ate so much saurkraut and fatty sausages and gooey baked things for desert... and some noodly thing called schpektel(?) or something... before becoming New Apostolic and going to fellowships and fellowships and fellowships... I always figured there was always so much food, 'cause (glutony) good food seemed to be the only permitted earthly passion!

I've only met one sister who made this stuff that was worth eating. Most of it is bland and sticky...NAC's, please take note! Some of you are so proud of your spaetzle and it's not very good as I see it. Give me a good egg noodle or good 'ole mashed potatoes. And what on earth is this tar-tar (http://www.astray.com/rec...%20-%20schlemmerschnitte) raw meat thing? Cultural, no doubt, but not very tasty to some of us. Imagine going to a fellowship craving the wonderful food only to find twenty pounds of raw meat, egg yolks and spices! And all those enthusiastic older folk beaming from ear to ear for the food of the fatherland. Eeew! Bless there little hearts, but c'mon, at least throw it on the grill!

Gluttony does seem to be a more minor sin as it were. The Bride of Christ, of course, is to commit no sin whether of commission or omission.

[GG001]

USA arbeitet an einer neuen web Seite aehnlich der Seite der NAC Kanada.

Die bisherige Seiten http://www.newapostolicchurch.org/ und http://www.nac-usa.org/ existieren auch noch.

Quelle: Aus dem NACboard

[GG001]

About the new NAC USA web site

Looking at the new site, I wonder if it shouldn't be moved to www.kolb.com? Seems to have mostly news about him, at least at this point. While I can appreciate him keeping the members informed about his travels, I think it might look better to the general public if it was under a link on the home page, not taking up the entire home page.

The web site is the Kolb show because that is what the TB THINK is important--where did the DA hold a "divine service" and what did the "Lord's Ambassador" say? That is the center of the NAC world--meaning, of course, that Christ is not.

The TB cannot see how very weird it is to pull up a church site and see nothing but reports on apostle visits. Do they really think seeking souls are out there trolling the internet looking for "living apostles"? Can you imagine how off-putting it would be for someone trying to investigate what the NAC is about and find the content is largely where the church's national leader held a sermon?

To those who design the website--it looks like you work for a cult. You need to think about how this stuff looks to those outside the NAC community.

TB:True Believer, True Blue

==> Sour-pusses behind the altar
No, we are not talking about cats as the spelling already indicates. But the facial expression of the lady in the poster speaks for itself to explain the meaning of the term.