Auf der anderen Seite des Grossen Teichs

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F.: Wo aus dem Artikel geht hervor, daß es ein ehemaliges NAK Gebäude ist?

A: Wir verlassen uns auf einen schoenen Hinweis von Deaconess im NACboard, die entweder die NAC Gemeinden in ihrem weiteren Umfeld kennt oder damals von der Schliessung dieser Gemeinde gehoert oder gelesen hat.

"Deaconess" schreibt ueber die zu erwartende Entwicklung im United Kingdom/Ireland:

According to the 2006 filing, the NAC UK has set aside 4% of its net current assets in anticipation of the church in Ireland becoming an independent Irish Charity to fulfill UK & Irish legal and regulatory requirements. Apparently this will take place within the next 5 years.

Aus dem NACboard

Es sieht so aus, als ob in absehbarer Zeit der Status der NAC in Irland neu definiert wird.

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Es gibt solche und solche ATs, solche und solche Geschwister, solche und solche Gemeinden. What you have to one of the least ...

Visiting and Doing

lacnac, I think our congregation could do a better job in organizing "care", such as Katherine shared about the other church. But, I feel that on an individual level, there are many members in our congregation (ministers included) that have jumped in and tried to help as much as possible with actions and not just prayer.... "DO unto others"....

Presently we have three families that have been attending church for more than a year.... all as a result of unsolicited care and compassion on the part of members. The father in one of the families was going through some heavy-duty chemo. A sister who was touched by his circumstance and the toll it was taking on the family would often bring them dinner. The wife told me this story several months after they had started attending, saying that she was so moved by this sister's compassion that she decided right then and there that she wanted to go to the church where this sister went.

Another woman, who was the wife of a NAC but never attended or joined, was overwhelmed by the care her husband received during his illness and eventual death. The congregation pooled its resources and took care of all of the funeral expenses and arrangements. Unable to continue living in her home due to illness, the members helped her "close down" her home and move into a nursing home. She wanted to attend, so is picked up for services. (She's enjoying The Purpose Driven Life, and I enjoy her contributions to the discussions.... we're learning much!) Her husband, while alive, was a counselor for NA (Narcotics Anonymous). He asked if they could have their meetings in our congregation. I believe they have been using our facility for almost 2 years now.... it had been hard for them to find a place to meet in (churches included) and they are most appreciative!

There is a grandmother that lives across the street, raising three young children. The kids have been attending church for several years, and I've watched members take SINCERE interest in their welfare. A couple of years ago at the Christmas program, the grandma got up... and walked to the front. Through tears she began relaying about how much our congregation has helped her with her grandchildren... especially thanking the Sunday School teachers and asked if she could give us a "gift" as she then broke out in a very soulful Spiritual that rocked the walls of the fellowship hall.... "King Jesus"...

A sister this past year shared her experience about"Washing Feet" at a soup kitchen... I know members will join her this coming year.

A retired priest that had surgery last week commented after having received so many visits and telephone calls that he couldn't believe how much he was loved...

Katherine... we still have a long way to go in our congregation. I admit that. And, I don't believe you've pulled your observation out of thin air in regards to the church's history of "giving" -- I've witnessed and heard too many other "experiences" along the same line as you have in the past! But, I've also witnessed the good, and because of that I guess I can't quite so readily generalize.

Aus dem NACboard

Nur ein herausragender Beitrag als Antwort auf einen anderen, traurigen.

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On another point, we will not charge admission to any activity or even suggest donation amounts in our Church. The retired District Apostle Kraus often said we will not make a beggar out of our Church. For your information, the North American brothers and sisters, through the noble efforts of the Church, donate 50 percent of all charitable contributions made to needy causes by the New Apostolic Church worldwide. Isn't it interesting that 45 thousand North American members contribute 50 percent, and the more than 9 million members from the remainder of the world contribute the other 50 percent? We take a backseat to no one. However, we will not establish an atmosphere where anyone would feel pressured into making contributions.

Aus einem Brief von Ap. Kolb

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Ueberqueren wir einen anderen Teich nach Neuseeland, wo in einer Broschuere der NAC zu lesen ist:

"What makes your church different from all the others?"

New Apostolic Christians are often asked this question. And there is no single, standard answer. Differences from one denomination may be similarities with another. Thus the following list contains some of our beliefs that are not necessarily shared by all Christians nowadays. New Apostolic Christians believe: in a triune God who wishes to help all mankind; that the New Apostolic Church is Jesus Christ's work of redemption in our time; that Jesus Christ reigns in his church and gave it the Apostle ministry, which is necessary to prepare believing souls for Christ's return; that Jesus Christ established three sacraments for his church, which are also dispensed upon children: Holy Baptism, Holy Communion, and Holy Sealing; that Holy Sealing, the bestowal of the Holy Spirit, can only be done by Apostles of Jesus;

Brenda kommentiert im NACboard: Interesting to note that the brochure deals upfront with the fact that the doctrine is "different" than what most Christians "are used to" rather than keeping quiet about it and wait until they come to church before "hitting" them with it

[tergram]

Temporär exklusiv.

Wer(s) glaubt, wird was?

[dietmar]

braut natürlich,was denn sonst??

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Amerikanischer Humor zur Bankenkrise: Click!

Glossar: keg = Fass.

401(k) retirement plan, ein steuerbeguenstiger Sparplan fuer Altersruecklagen.

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Derzeitige Ueberschrift auf der Eingangsseite im NACboard:

"... we see the result of a church that does not demand scriptural accountability for its teachings and adheres to the notion that its highest lay ministers are the mouthpiece of God. The result is flip-flop theology. Latorcai, unencumbered by scripture, decides that the membership can and should offer for the dead."

~ Shaquille ~


"Our loved ones in eternity would like to be able to bring a thanksgiving offering but cannot, and are thankful if a loved one will bring something on their behalf"

~ DA Latorcai - Thanksgiving 2007 ~

"This means that we cannot be thankful on behalf of someone else. Therefore we cannot bring an offering of thanks for others, regardless of whether they are dead or alive"

~ CA Leber - Thanksgiving 2008 ~

Der ganze Beitrag von Shaquille, wie meistens lesenswert, ist hier.

Unencumbered: unbelastet
===================================
Frage an die Leser:
Im selben Thema "no more offering for the dead!" schreibt vapour123:

I believe that is why the Chief Apostle around 1999-2001 issued a statement ordering ALL "Administration Brothers" (weekly - monthly) meetings to end.
Aus dem NACboard

Kann das jemand erklaeren, denn hier finden noch solche Treffen der Amtsbrueder statt?

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Ein kleines persoenliches Stimmungsbild aus den USA:

I have been very blunt with Apostle Kolb for several years... sharing my feelings and strong opinions both in person and through correspondence using my name. He has made attempts to respond. Perhaps some of his responses were limited (or influenced?) by his loyalty and respect for his leaders. Although some of his responses may seem insignificant, the fact that he DID try to maintain some sort of open dialogue is commendable when one considers the culture of indoctrination/blind obedience he was operating in/programmed by.

Fear of communicating -- knowing that one faced possible "retaliation" -- stifled members and ministers from sharing their ideas and opinions with leaders in the past. They didn't wish to be labelled as a complainer or lose their ministry. Perhaps he has responded just as strongly to some in the past (some posters have shared incidents) but is there still justification for that "fear" once he takes the reins from Freund?

Please consider this:

I have not been "disassociated" or excommunicated.

My husband has never been spoken to regarding his wife's behaviour, and he retains his priestly office. In fact, even several years after I began participating on the NACBoard, my husband was asked if he would accept being ordained as an Evangelist (he didn't accept as he enjoys working in our congregation and didn't wish to be gone so much.)

The week after I received the "Who are You?" letter, my husband was scheduled to assist Apostle Kolb in our District Sunday School Service. (Ap. Kolb did the "service part", my husband did the interactive part.) In the sacristy prior to the service, Apostle Kolb asked my husband if he would be interested in traveling to other areas to conduct children's services. My husband said he didn't feel "pressured" and responded that he felt that each area needed to develop their own programs.

Apostle Kolb is really gung-ho about modernizing congregations. The foundation of that plan is MEMBER input and "ownership" (members "owning" their own programs from start to finish including conception, development, and implementation). He stated in our Dist. AB&Wives meeting that he didn't want to rule... that his goal was to assist and move the church in the direction of local autonomy.

I understand and sympathize with the "fear" that pervades the membership to openly share opinions and ideas, concerns and complaints... it was based on "fact" that one would face certain retribution. Is it possible that the fear factor will become an anomaly in the U.S. District under Kolb's leadership if he's successful in bringing "old schoolers" on board with his "plan"?

I believe Kolb recognizes our Church is unhealthy and wishes to energize the membership to find solutions that will turn it around. That process includes being open and receptive to new ideas and honest evaluation of current programs and guidelines.

I understand that it's tantamount that the doctrine be addressed. But until a culture is established in which members are encouraged to evaluate and share their observations and ideas... to be receptive to change... the possibility of the shortcomings of the doctrine being addressed are nil. Can the "Modern Congregation" approach help bring about that "culture"?

"Deaconess" im NACboard

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DA Latorcai - Canadian Thanksgiving Service 2008

Interesting that at the CA service this past Sunday in Canada DAL himself mentioned that one cannot bring Thank offerings for the departed, thus reversing his position.

Aus dem Nacboard

DAL = District Apostle Latorcai